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Beitragvon Randnotiz » 09.11.2007, 20:29

"cry room" hat in dem Zusammenhang in etwa den Charme wie das bekannte deutsche Wort "Gummizelle".
Verrückte Welt.
Nur wer die Fakten kennt, kann sie verdrehen.

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Beitragvon tergram » 09.11.2007, 20:47

Bei euch heißt das "Aquarium", oder? :wink:
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Beitragvon Randnotiz » 09.11.2007, 21:00

Oder "Nasszelle", ja.
Nur wer die Fakten kennt, kann sie verdrehen.

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Beitragvon GG001 » 09.11.2007, 21:11

Randnotiz hat geschrieben:Verrückte Welt.

Americans drive on parkways and park on driveways.
Dafuer schicken die Deutschen ihre Kinder in den Kindergarten und ziehen die Baeumchen in der Baumschule.
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"Getting their attention"

Beitragvon GG001 » 11.11.2007, 14:58

With Thanksgiving right around the corner ...
Click!

Beitrag von 2003, "reanimiert" anno 2007.

"Redneck Bishop" ist nicht ernst gemeint, daher auch nicht der Kommentar von "Amateur Firstling": "Our beloved bishop gives us much to ponder ..."
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Beitragvon GG001 » 17.11.2007, 12:08

"Herb Stroh" schreibt im NACboard:

Where would I go with the "Modern Congregation" concept if I had the authority to make the decisions? Before I answer that, consider where the church is now.

One must take off the NAC glasses and try to see the church as a seeking soul looking for a family church. What would you want in that church? When we moved to a small town, we visited the local churches to find one that suited the needs of our family. We were hyper-sensitive to everything—music, interaction of members, liturgy, programs offered for kids/youth, demographics of the membership, ministers, their preaching style, sermon content, feeling of spirituality, connection to community, etc.

With that criteria in mind, how would the “average” NAC congregation fare? The music in most congregations is traditional old hymns sung by a choir that may or may not be able to perform the music competently. There is little or no use of contemporary music or praise hymns by the congregation. Interaction between members may be terrific, or may reflect a deep ideological division between conservatives (there has been too much change in the church) to progressives (we have not changed enough to be viable). Programs for kids and youth are limited in comparison to most other churches. Preaching style, content, passion for the word, public speaking ability, and spirituality are probably best described as uneven—some ministers have it and some don’t, and either category could be serving on any given Sunday. Rarely are there connections to the community via programs or charity, and congregants are commuters--not neighbors.

Now factor how a guest might view transmission services (“why is everyone worshipping with a TV?”), district services (“why is there no service locally but in a rented hall hours from home?”), services devoted to discussing prior services (“what’s a Chief Apostle and why is what he says more inspired than my local minister?”), formal dress (“I shouldn’t wear pants?”), SFD (“services for dead people?”), no fiscal transparency (“how are my offerings being used if there is no staff and no local charity?”), exclusivity (“my former church’s communion was ineffective and the Spirit does not yet live within me?”), and other non-traditional NAC practices and teachings. Does this sound like the ideal candidate for your new family church?

What I would do if I were king would be to establish a pilot congregation and give it a mandate to learn the needs of the local community and the freedom to do whatever it takes to bring that community to Christ. Specifically, assemble a core of volunteers who are progressive minded and willing to commit to the concept. Establish the pilot congregation in a new location or change over an existing congregation and free it to try new music, programs, style of worship, etc., that they think might work in their community.

The volunteer group needs to have the requisite skill set, which would include altar servants who are spiritual, passionate in their presentation, and of course, excellent public speakers. There must be at least a core of musically trained persons who can coordinate and implement a progressive music/praise program, as well as sufficient talent to operate a key program or two that fits the needs of the community.

To address some of the issues above, I would allow this pilot congregation to operate independently. It would need to be “open for business” even when other NAC congregations are in transmission or district services. So that it can operate efficiently and address local needs, it should be allowed to retain 80% of its offerings locally--not only to pay the bills but to use for promotion of the church and its programs. The funds collected and expended should be totally transparent, and traditional cash-management procedures put in place to assure proper use of funds. Decisions should be made via a committee whose composition is compelled to change by fixed terms.

From there, I would say “try anything” and just leave them alone for 3 to 5 years to see what they can do. If the community the church seeks to serve might respond to a praise band, gospel choir, or traditional choir, the pilot congregation should try it. If community outreach means opening the church to community groups, or members partnering with other churches to address local charitable causes, go for it. Let them decide how to advertise the church and promote Christ in that community. Allow them to work NAC liturgy and message to meet the needs of the local demographics. Needless to say, exclusivity cannot exist in this pilot congregation.

I know the arguments that will be raised against such a move. Where is the oneness if this congregation can operate outside NAC norms? Apostle Paul wrote that he is all things to all people. Clearly, current church operations and practices are not attracting new members. If the goal of the Modern Congregation movement is bring new blood to the church, it needs to be attractive to a broader market and have the ability to compete. In the end, oneness is achieved not by procedure but by connection to Christ.

Another concern will be that some of the new ideas are unholy and ungodly. If casual dress or guitar and drums will bring someone new to Christ, how can that be ungodly? What is the goal — to preserve the current style of worship or to find new souls? How do any of us know the style of NAC worship is more acceptable to God than some other form?

It will be said that this proposal destroys the NAC’s uniqueness and becomes “just like any other church.” Those that like the current standards and practices can remain in a traditional congregation and enjoy that uniqueness. But that message does not resonate with the general population, and that fact must be reckoned with.

Objection will be raised that by taking this core group of volunteers away one is draining off critical resources needed for other traditional congregations to survive. Certainly there will be a depletion of the volunteer pool, and it will tend to be its youngest and most dynamic. But it will not be any easier to start such a program 5 years from now when the pool is smaller still. It comes back to the issue argued elsewhere about urgency. Does the church see the urgency in its current situation such that it is willing to expend the resources on a totally new approach?

Finally, some will say that such a pilot congregation by definition has to operate outside of NAC doctrine and thus cannot be New Apostolic. But what exactly is current church doctrine? Recent official and unofficial statements indicates that core beliefs remain open to interpretation, or at the very least, are not consistently articulated. It would be far more profitable to set forth a simple set of immutable doctrinal components — e.g., belief in the trinity, acceptance of Christ as personal Savior, and the need for indwelling of the Spirit — and let other points of doctrine settle out over time. It is far more important to bring a new soul to Christ than to insist upon rigid adherence to doctrinal issues that rely upon latter day prophecies. The truth we will all know when Christ returns —the question now is how can we find those called to be God’s children?

I don’t opine as to whether church leadership would ever embrace such a concept. But when I compare what is working in the Christian community with the path the NAC is on, I don’t see the church gaining any traction. If the “Modern Congregation” initiative is intended to satisfy progressive minded NAC’s rather than to bring in new members, then tinkering a bit with praise music and other procedures may fulfill that limited objective. However, if the goal is to grow the church, something very different than what has taken place in the US over the last 30 years needs to be implemented.

The question is, where does the church want to go and what is it willing to change to get there?

=======================
"olderandwisertwo":

An excellent, thoughtful and pragmatic concept, Herb. Sooner or later, the NAC leadership will need to consider some "out-of-the-box" concepts -- if the church is to survive. But, as you pointed out, if it goes much longer, the necessary pool of qualified and inspired leaders who are willing to make such a progression, will be sorely depleted. Already, the NAC has lost too many viable, forward thinking and progressive leaders.

I would suggest your thesis be nailed to every NAC church door in the USA. Someone needs to sit up and listen, and try something radically different.
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Beitragvon Tatyana † » 17.11.2007, 13:02

...und die deutsche Übersetzung wird an jede deutsche NAK Kirchentür genagelt-und dann wandere ich schleunigst nach Wittenberg aus :wink:
''If you have never been called a defiant, incorrigible, impossible woman… have faith… there is yet time." (C.P. Estes)
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Beitragvon GG001 » 22.11.2007, 23:28

The New Apostolic Church details its doctrine of salvation: Exclusive? Yes, but with no claim to absoluteness

That is the heading for the intro to the Position paper regarding exclusivity in the NAC. To read it just Click Here!

The activity of the apostle ministry is indispensable for the preparation of the bridal congregation. It is in God’s sovereign decision whether or not others will also be accepted on the Day of the Lord.


If you read 2.4 through 2.5 it is very clear that during the "current phase" that we are in, that the apostle ministry is the way to salvation. However, in the past and in the future, when the apostle ministry is not active, everyone will have a chance then! Pheww!

Eine ganz neue Interpretation. Warum leben wir bloss in dieser schwierigen Zeit? :mrgreen:

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Beitragvon GG001 » 25.11.2007, 00:34

Ein Forum mit dem Thema "Die CAC (Catholic Apostolic Congregations)" click!
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Beitragvon GG001 » 25.11.2007, 10:54

Mildred, the church gossip, and self-appointed monitor of the church morals, kept sticking her nose into other people's business. Several members didn't approve of her extracurricular activities, but feared her enough to maintain their silence.

She made a mistake, however, when she accused George, a new member, of being an alcoholic, after she saw his old pickup parked in front of the town's only bar one afternoon.

She emphatically told George and several others that everyone seeing it there would know what he was doing. George, a man of few words, stared at her for a moment and just turned and walked away. He didn't explain, defend, or deny. He said nothing.

Later that evening, George quietly parked his pickup in front of Mildred's house... And left it there all night.

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